LAURA STASSI

This is Dating While Gray: The grown-up’s guide to love sex and relationships. I’m Laura Stassi, and I’m a Scorpio. What’s your sign, and has it figured into your romantic life? That’s what we’re exploring in today’s episode: Love in the Stars.

Okay, I’ll admit, I read my horoscope every morning. It’s a habit I got into a long time ago. I think it’s fun. For example, one day last November when I was deep into research for the podcast, my horoscope said I was wrestling with whether I should remain in my creative cave, or share my life with someone. And it did not have to be one or the other. When I was in junior high school, I actually wrote the horoscope column for the student newspaper. I didn’t do any research. I didn’t realize there was any research to do. For me, it was creative writing based mainly on who I had a crush on at any given moment. Like the time I encouraged all Capricorns to break up with their current love interest, because their lives have become quote, awfully dull. There are plenty of fish in the ocean, I wrote, and you have pretty good bait.

For some people, astrology starts with getting to know more about themselves before they think about matching with someone else.

KOKU

I think the whole universe is on purpose and working in ways that we can’t always see.

LAURA STASSI

That’s Koku. She’s in her late 50s. And she’s been married twice, first to a Scorpio and then to a Libra.

 

KOKU

And I think people who study the stars and astrology and all of that, I think they have a little window into our personalities and people born in during the summertime on this day, you know, they they’re able to spend time and find out what people have in common and go oh, oh, you know …

LAURA STASSI

Koku says she reads her daily horoscope for fun, but she does think astrology is more than sun signs and basic personality traits.

KOKU

They say that Geminis are the children of the zodiac. And I definitely am that in the way. I, I guess well, they say the way we manifest physically, that a lot of times Geminis look younger than they are and the way we act our energy is usually a little bit more on the I guess, carefree youthful side, you know?

 LAURA STASSI

Uh-huh. And how about some of the negative aspects of Gemini? Do you feel like that you are those as well?

KOKU

Yes, well, with a with a caveat, because sometimes people will hear that I’m a Gemini and they get the impression that Oh, Gemini, you know, their two face suit are hypocritical, which is not true. Geminis have a very, we do have a lot of duality, but in the way that we can see different points of views. We have different opinions. You know, we always see the Yang and Yang of things. That kind of duality, I guess. But definitely not hypocritical. It’s like just because I agree with her and I agree with him. Desert You know, that’s not a conflict was not you know,

LAURA STASSI

So you can see both sides or all sides of an issue

KOKU

For sure.

I look at the horoscope as interesting like, Huh, really? We’ll see about that. I wonder that kind of thing. So I’m not a I wouldn’t say I’m like a true believer like oh my gosh, you know, they say the stay inside or it’s going to be a bad money month. I don’t go into it is an believe in it verbatim? Literally, if it says it, it’s gonna happen. But I’d say it’s a sweet little consultant to you know, listen to a little bit a little bit. Yeah.

I don’t think anything is really you know, just black and white like Geminis are useful. And then you meet somebody who’s kind of bitter and crabby. You’re going you’re a Gemini, but who knows what their life experiences have been. Maybe my experiences have been able to kind of foster my true self possibly. And oh gosh, now you I’m getting ready to get deep No, no good, I would say that, at a certain time in my life, things happened, that my youthful, lighter spirit, a truer personification of myself, it was able to come forward, that allowed me to be more of a Gemini, as opposed to before I was very kind of quiet, didn’t talk at all demonizes are known to be very talkative, you know, and so, you know, I grew up in a very strict household. And so a very strict religious household. And so I think that experience kind of squashed my natural Gemini tendencies. And once I grew up and grew out and and things change, more of my true self was able to come through.

LAURA STASSI

Yeah, I’ve always thought Libras and Scorpios, don’t get along. But it’s, it’s not just if somebody is a Libra, it has to do with where that you know that how our planets were aligned on the respective days we were born and you know, that kind of thing. It’s a more, I guess, a more complete picture. I don’t know.

KOKU

Yes, it can get really, really deep. One time a friend gave me my chart, like, a hole with a little booklet, you know, based on not just my birthday, but the time I was born, the place on the planet where I was born everything. And, you know, as I read through that, some of the stuff, I was like, Oh, my gosh, and it’s, it’s one of the things that I remember was that in my past life,

LAURA: (Laughter)

KOKU

I know, I didn’t know it was that maybe it was, I didn’t know it was that deep. In my past life, I lived a life of seclusion, where I was really working on self. And he likened it to a monastery or something like that. And in this life, I’m in a life of service. And I was like, service homey. Which I know service is the big word is I be of service be of service via service? And I’ve got to say, I really am. It’s, as far as a lot of my work goes and everything. So are you involved with anybody right now? I’m not, you know, I do have someone that I’m kind of interested in. And I can talk because he’s not going to listen to this. But his birthday was recently because we went out on his birthday, you know, we wouldn’t have it. But this is recent. This is last week. This is what I did. I got ready to look up his Zodiac and read all try to read all about him. Then I decided not to. I decided that I will try to think try to get to know him. organically, you know, because these days, you can do a lot of snooping, you know, who are you? What have they said about you? And it’s okay, I’m not going to do any of that. And believe me, I’ve done that too. Yeah, see that? And so I said, I’m gonna get to know him organically. You know, not my words. This is some a word that I heard somebody use so well. Do it organically. So no, looking at his zodiac, though. I know his birthday. I might just look at his sign.

LAURA STASSI

Yeah, I was gonna say okay, do you want me to I can pull my phone out?

KOKU Yes, yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah. His birthday was March.

LAURA STASSI

So it’s the 23rd. Now. So, today …

KOKU

We went out to breakfast on today’s Tuesday. We went out last week. So that would be seven

LAURA STASSI

March 16.

KOKU

Yes. Yes. It was March 16.

LAURA STASSI

It was March 16.

KOKU Okay, this could be it. Be a Leo!

LAURA STASSI

Pisces.

KOKU Pisces. Oh, that’s good.

LAURA STASSI

Is that okay?

KOKU

Yeah, yes. From what I know about Pisces. Oh, good. He’s a Pisces. That means he’s very kind and sensitive. And my moon is in Pisces. And that will used to be one of my defending things when people said Gemini. Oh, I know about Gemini. I said, Oh, but my moon is in Pisces.

LAURA STASSI

And what does that mean, your moon is in Pisces?

KOKU

I don’t know, Laura. I know my sun is in Gemini. And my moon is in Pisces. And when you look at astrologers, they always say people don’t defend the sun sign. It’s not always it’s not just about the sun. It’s a lot of things. You know, and I think maybe just the sun signs are the entertainment aspect of the of the zodiac, you know, with a little bit of truth in there. But you’ve got to have you’ve got to know all of it to really have the ultimate truth.

LAURA STASSI

You know, I understand Koku sounding a little defensive about being a Gemini. I personally think Scorpios get a bad rap for supposedly having trust issues. But if love is truly found in the stars, what should we be considering beyond our daily horoscope?

LESLIE MCGUIRK 10:22

All that an astrologer ever needs to know is the date time and place of birth. When I work with my clients, I don’t do it on zoom. I don’t want to see them. I don’t want to have any information. I don’t even want them to tell me anything about their lives because a good astrologer can see everything.

LAURA STASSI

We’ll talk with an astrologer after the break.

BREAK

LAURA STASSI

Leslie McGuirk is an illustrator and best-selling children’s book author. She credits meeting with an astrologer when she was 19 for showing her this life path was possible. That’s also when she started studying astrology herself. She says it can offer meaningful insights but has little if anything to do with daily horoscopes.

LESLIE

Actually, that’s not what it is at all. That is one of the biggest problems is that people think astrology is horoscopes. And that’s not what it is. That’s not what I do. I actually don’t really believe in horoscopes i don’t think i think it’s I think it’s fun, it’s entertaining. But I what I do is super, super accurate and totally different. So here’s what astrology is. When you’re born, you are imprinted with a vibrational map sacred geometry of where all the planets were at the moment of birth. And we live in an electromagnetic universe. So music is a lot like astrology in that you can’t see it or touch it. It’s something that’s felt and it’s something that’s interpret it. So you are born with basically a musical score, okay, which is a design or a pattern. So everything in nature has a pattern, whether it’s a tree trunk, or snowflake. Everything has a pattern including us. So we are born with basically an owner’s manual. And knowing your horoscope is like saying that you are a Mercedes, but I don’t know what color you are. I don’t know if you’re a sedan or an SUV or diesel. So what I mean it means nothing to me, I’m really not into sun sign astrology at all, because it’s not detailed enough. And astrology is incredibly accurate when you have the understanding on how to read the human pattern. And it’s an interpreted things. So you could go to 20 astrologers and get different interpretations just like musical score, you could have elton john played, it’s going to sound different than Ray Charles. So we have a definite system and an organized way of being an astrologer His job is to help you find the easiest way to learn to like your music and to play at the best way possible.

LAURA STASSI

I love that analogy, thinking of it like music that makes I mean to me that makes so much sense. So and when you say you study it, do people go to school? Or do you become certified as an astrologer? I mean, how, how does that work?

LESLIE

You can go to school. I have been studying since I was 19. And I’ve had various teachers over the years. But I think the thing that’s made me a really good astrologer is just doing hundreds and 1000s of charts. And when it’s just like it’s exactly the same as playing music or learning a musical instrument. You can read about how to play a guitar, but you’re not going to be good at it. The only way you get good at astrology is to keep doing it.

LAURA STASSI

So it sounds like it’s almost psychology or therapy in a way.

LESLIE

This is an esoteric science and it is extremely valuable. And it is it is like therapy. I always tell people to think about it like acupuncture. 50 years ago, people thought that was nuts. Like how could you put a needle in my toe and it helps my neck and it’s because we were an electrode Magnetic system. So if needles in the toe or in the ears can help your body, which is a known medical fact now, why would we fight the fact that astrology can help see the patterns? So it’s an extremely useful thing for the medical world to know about.

LAURA STASSI

Let’s talk about what you do and finding romantic love and how does it work for people 50 and older? And is there a difference between that and romantic love for people younger than 50?

LESLIE

I think that love is love and finding the right partner is I think it it’s more. It’s like you have more of a seasoned approach, obviously, if you’re older, but I feel that astrology is is one of the best ways to figure out whether or not someone is safe for you. And I think in this day and age, safety is a big, big deal. There are some people who karmically are just not healthy for us as one of my astrology teacher said, Leslie, you can burn off this karma with this guy over a cup of coffee, you don’t have to get involved with him. Forget the sun sign astrology. Because that’s what 90% of the books out there are looking at for compatibility. And that’s not really going to help you that’s not accurate. You want to look at, first of all your moon sign because the moon tells me how you’re going to react when you get emotionally upset. So if you have your moon in cancer, which is water, which is where it loves to be, and you’re dating somebody who’s got their moon in fire, like Leo or Aries, or Sagittarius, these do not combine really well. You could have unbelievable great stuff in the chart, unbelievable chemistry, but if emotionally, you’re not going to get fed by the other person. That’s something to know now it can still work. And that’s where astrology is beautiful, because you’re not going to change somebody’s basic makeup. I always use the expression of a giraffe. You know if it has a long neck, don’t get mad at it when it doesn’t fit into a mousehole is just the way that it is yeah, everyone knows their sun sign. But most people don’t know, they also have a moon sign and a Mercury sign.

So again, the same principle is if you have your Mercury in cancer, which is what I have, it means that when I talk I’m gentle and soft, like cancers, a very shy kind of retiring zodiac sign. So if you put me in a relationship with someone who has their Mercury in fire, it means the fire person, they love to be sharp and sarcastic and fight once in a while. That’s just the way they are. And I don’t like it at all. It’s very difficult for me. So I was once engaged to a guy who we had incompatible, Mercury’s and it actually became the one thing that I knew it was never going to work for me. So okay, like, let’s say I meet Mr. I

LAURA STASSI

So okay, like, let’s say I meet Mr. I think he’s wonderful. And we get our charts and we discover that our moons are in conflicting …

LESLIE

Elements.

LAURA: Am I saying this right?

 

LESLIE Yeah, elements. Yeah.

LAURA STASSI

So it doesn’t necessarily mean I need to break up. It’s just something I need to be aware of, because those that might be a source of conflict going down the road.

LESLIE

Right. So here’s what what I look at with astrology. I look at are these two people emotionally compatible? That’s number one. Number two, can they communicate with each other? That’s the second one. The third one, do they have sexual chemistry, some people love to touch all the time, people who have their sexual energy and air, they hate that they hate that globby touchy feely thing all the time, doesn’t mean they’re not great lovers or wonderful people. It’s just, they have a different need. They’re designed differently. So those are the three things that people need to know about the person they’re thinking of getting serious with. And so and astrologers, also looking at the patterns, like when is it a good time for you to meet somebody? When or when are you going to get married? Sometimes you could be totally ready for a partner. So I met this woman who was in her mid 60s I met her in Mexico where I teach at Rancho la puerta and she had gastric bypass surgery. She was still quite overweight. She told me that she had lived with her mother and she rescued cats. And I could tell this was not somebody who had dated or had a boyfriend and it’s just you’ve just got the whole vibe of what her life was like. So when she got home, she lived in Seattle when she got home. I did her astrology reading. And I was blown away. I was like, Oh my God, because I don’t normally see my clients but then I remembered her. I said, You are incredibly sexual. You are not supposed to be alone.

And I said, You’re not really out there dating at all, are you? She said No, I haven’t had a date and 20 years. I said listen, girlfriend. This has got to stop because your entire design is for love and sexual. In partnership, and it’s why you were born. And I said right now with the weather forecast, in this next year, you have the perfect opportunity to meet somebody. So then I have another trick in my toolbox not really a trick, another tool, and it’s an Astro cartography map, and it tells you the best places to go for love. So for women, yeah, it’s really interesting. I’m looking at her map, and right through Cuba is Venus, the sexy goddess planet, if a woman goes to a Venus line, she turns into this sexy, energized woman that men are attracted to. So I said, you need to go to Cuba, get yourself a cute dress and go to Cuba. Alright, a year passes. And she wrote to me and she said, Dear Leslie, after the reading, I thought it was really great reading except for all that nonsense about getting a cute dress and going to Cuba, but you won’t believe it. About eight months after the reading a girlfriend of mine was going to Cuba and she invited me to go with her and I hadn’t traveled anywhere in years. And she went and met a guy who lived 10 miles from her and Seattle, they fell madly in love, and they’ve been together ever since.

LAURA STASSI

So it sounds like sometimes, because I always love hearing about serendipitous meetings, but it sounds like serendipity might have something to do with our, our star charts our planets. And you know, understanding our owner’s manual, as you say.

LESLIE

Right, when also, there’s a great line, it’s, I don’t know who said it, but I’ve used this line before, it’s luck is the residue of design. So serendipity and luck. Part of it has to do with putting yourself in the right place at the right time as well. And following the patterns that that’s all in astrologers doing is seeing the patterns. And sometimes with love, when we aren’t getting what we want. Sometimes it’s because the other person needs to be at such a highly more elevated level that maybe they’re not ready and you can’t be with just anybody if you’re looking for something really special.

And it is sad. There is a lot of grief involved with being single and being alone because it’s scary. And it’s it can take a lot of energy to stay hopeful. And to believe that around the next corner at any minute somebody could be fun and interesting for your life. But the most important thing is to just keep being engaged with life, it’s really important to have friends of the opposite sex, because that can help balance you out too. A lot of women I know, don’t have any male friends. And I think that’s a place to start if you want to have a healthy relationship with a guy. Start learning how to be friends with a guy. And same thing with with men, that you know it’s healthy to have female friends, it helps you then be a better partner for a woman that you could have in your life.

LAURA STASSI

You heard Leslie say we should all know our Mercury sign. She wrote a book called The Power of Mercury. And it includes table so you could look yours up mind Scorpio, and guess what? Mercury was in retrograde on the day I was born. According to Leslie, this applies to about 15 to 20% of the population. We’re supposedly open to radical and visionary ideas, and our brains are wired to be a bit more unusual. Okay, I’m starting to make more sense to myself.

So what might all this mean for my love life? I asked a self-taught chart reader about what might be in the stars for my romantic future. Remember Joe and Patricia from the first episode of Season 2? They were the ones who met after a bungled speed dating event.

JOE

I passed out.

LAURA

Okay, wait a minute.

JOE

I had I maybe I was a little nervous, had a little too much to drink and, and then I woke up in my head’s in her lap and she’s combing putting her fingers through my hair saying it’s okay.

LAURA STASSI

Turns out Joe is into astrology. To decide if two people are compatible, he looks at things like the Chinese zodiac and planetary alignments based on time, date and place of birth.

JOE

Well, as she was looking about me on every site and finding out if I was who I said I was, if I were really existed and going on Facebook and all that stuff. I was actually looking up the scores and everything because she was kind enough to, you know, let me know the exact time date location she was born. So I was reading through all this I was going, Wow, 94% because I’d never seen very seldom you get anything in the 90s or above 90.

LAURA STASSI

I asked Joe if he would compare my chart with the charts of three different men and he agreed,  explaining that there’s more than one way to make interpretations.

JOE

Sort of like having a recipe where you can still come out with a delicious chocolate cake. But there’s many different ways of doing it. So what I would do is, I wouldn’t take just one thing well, like, I’m a Libra, and she’s a Capricorn. Then there’s the Chinese astrology. There’s the year that you were born in that Chinese astrology, there’s Tarot things, there’s things that you dream about this person. So there’s all sorts of this, what they would call, I don’t want to call it mystical. But let’s just say another source of information to find out about, you know, not only your tendencies, but those tendencies with somebody else who you’d be interested in pursuing a relationship with.

LAURA STASSI

OK, okay. So I gave you a man to compare my chart with, and we’re going to call them, Mr. G, Mr. T, and Mr. W, based on a certain aspect of them. And so I want to start with Mr. W, because Mr. W, is not necessarily a compatible sun sign of mine, Scorpio and Libra. But you came up with an overall match of 83%. And I’m wondering how you explain that.

JOE

Okay, so what this does is this, this just gives you a, an overview of what you could be looking at, what was interesting with all of your choices is they are, especially with Chinese astrology, you’re looking if you’re in the same year, that that person was born in, like, the year of the rat, year of the horse, if you’re matching up with with the same year, you’re already going to have a lot a higher score than you would normally. And then you just look at that with the other things because you’re right, normally, the Scorpio man and a Scorpio woman, and Libra or Libra men, you know, it could be challenges, let’s just say there. And I’m speaking from experience, because my mother was a Scorpio and my daughter’s a Scorpio. So I have a deep knowledge of the Scorpio women. So you’re very fiery, very strong, very passionate individuals. So you may end up with a with a high score on the surface, but then when you start borrowing, you know, you might find that that 17%, which is keeping you from getting to 100%, well, maybe those are things that you can’t find compromises or you can’t find a way to work through it, where there could be somebody with a 77%. But that’s in that 77% are those core things that you would really need to pursue a good relationship?

LAURA STASSI

Okay. Okay. Which reminds me, so Mr. T. He’s another sort of incompatible sun sign, a Leo, and there was only 74% compatibility. So does that mean we’re doomed, or we could make it work, we’re just gonna have to try a little harder.

JOE

That was the lowest of the of the three overall scores. But it’s looking at different things that were either present in the atmosphere or in the universe when you each were born. But it also looks at where you were born as well, which takes into account a lot of things. And I know, it’s just looking at latitude and longitude when you’re plugging it in. But if they’re in another country, or in another culture, those things would could perhaps affected as well. And then you always look at those things that are saying that, well, here’s your friction points. But like I said, different. Different individuals will put different values on different things like, this person doesn’t like chocolate. I love chocolate. And that’s a non starter for me if this person can’t eat chocolate, so you know, that might be in the 26%, or whatever that you that you don’t match up that, hey, if it’s something that you can work or do without then perhaps the 74% isn’t as important. And you have to remember it’s just a starting point to and it’s just one part of the equation that’s going in there. So these scores were just taken from Chinese astrology and those star chart pictures. Actually, once you start moving along the road, it doesn’t mean that it can’t grow because this is just the starting point. The scores You can always go up once you get to know the person or once you’ve worked into things and improve your score. And then again, you know, it could go down as well. Yeah.

LAURA STASSI

Okay. And then finally, Mr. G. I didn’t have a time of birth. And so first of all, how much does that throw off the result?

JOE

It can throw it off pretty significantly, but at least if you have the date, and the location, you know, as long as you can get within that 24 hour window, you know, they were born sometime on that day, you know, it’s not going to be as exact they don’t get you in the ballpark. Very well.

LAURA STASSI

Yeah, cuz I was gonna say he and I do have compatible, he’s the one that I did have a compatible sun sign with, Virgo. And at the same time, he was still at 83%, just like the Libra.

JOE

Anytime you get anything over 70%, feel feel fortunate. And if you get in the 80s, then you have a chance to even reach the 90s. But if you start in the 90th percentile, then you’re really one of the fortunate ones that the universe and the stars and the charts that smiled upon.

LAURA STASSI

You heard Joe say that I have 83% compatibility with both Mr. W and Mr. G. Mr. W? He’s my ex-husband. Okay, we did manage to stay married for almost 30 years, so no snickering. And Mr. G? That’s Colin Firth. You know, the British actor from Bridget Jones’s Diary and the King’s Speech. Think about it. I have as much astrological compatibility with Colin Firth, as I have with my ex-husband. Now all I’ve got to do is meet the king — I mean, Colin.

The final candidate, Mr. T, who’s only 74% compatible? I’m not revealing the identity, other than to say he’s a good sport who gave me his information. Sounds like we might not be the most natural of matches. In fact, Leslie McGuirk’s Mercury sign book says we’re very different yet equally strong minded. But we can be a quote, very powerful combination. Might be fun to try working on that final 26 percent.

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