How many “permanent” moves have you made since turning 50? I’ve had three — so far. In my mid-50s, after a coinciding marital split and house sale, I landed at an apartment to get my single bearings. Two and a half years later, I bought a townhouse, where I lived for eight years before selling it to move to the capital city of Virginia to be closer to my adult kids. I’m in a rental … so I’m fairly confident I have at least one more move in my (perhaps near) future. After that, who knows?

Maybe you’ve gleaned from this week’s episode: Sense of place is on my mind. Even if you’re content with where you are, maybe it’s worth exploring if familiarity is an enhancement for your life, or a crutch.

LAURA STASSI

When my mom and dad were 70 and 79, they sold our longtime family home … and started making moves. First, they lived in an apartment in one city. And then after about five years, they bought a house in another one. Nine years later, they relocated again.

Their experiences have made me wonder how many moves I might have left in me. One thing I have figured out is this: Just as there are experts to help guide us through dating and forming new relationships, there also are experts to help us figure out where we should consider home. Like, this guy.

RYAN FREDERICK

Yeah, so Ryan Frederick, the founder and CEO of Here. Here’s a platform to help people really unlock the power of place in their lives, in the full range of possibilities, not just something that you live in, but as a platform for a better life. And I would also say, I wrote a book a couple of years ago called “Right Place, Right Time: The Ultimate Guide to Finding Home in the Second Half of Life.”

LAURA STASSI

Yes, I saw it, I read it, and that’s why I wanted to speak with you. I think a lot of us, no matter how old we are, I’m 63, we all have memories of trying to persuade elderly parents to downsize either possessions or actual living space. And at the same time, we have these memories where a lot of us are finding ourselves firmly entrenched in whatever situation that we’re in.

Forget for a moment our actual address or if we’re physically close to family and friends, why does a sense of place matter — and how can we separate feelings of home with familiarity?

RYAN FREDERICK

Yeah, wow, great question, Laura. There’s a lot there. You know, I think that particularly as we get older, the book was designed and the content for people in the second half of life. So really 50 plus, but this idea of where you live and how it influences your life is really relevant for the full continuum of your life. The average American adult moves a dozen times.

Having that sense of place, that sense of home, is really important for, in that sense of wellbeing, but it can be elusive for people. And it’s one of the reasons why I think if you’re not intentional about it, it’s far less likely to happen.

LAURA STASSI

Yeah, intentional. I think that’s important because I think familiarity also might imply — we have our routines and in some ways, there’s nothing wrong with a routine, but in other ways it can really hold us back from exploring fuller potential.

RYAN FREDERICK

Yeah, yeah, sometimes when you’re just around what’s familiar, you don’t necessarily realize the changes that are happening in your own life and the different chapters you may be embarking on. And I’ve found some people, a change in place, even if it’s temporary, can be a way of kind of wiping the slate clean. Okay, new chapter, what I want it to look like. And even sometimes what can happen is, of relationships that are pretty important to you, friendships, they can hold you back sometimes because you may be ready for another chapter, but some of your friends may not necessarily be eager for you to embark on a new chapter. So there’s something about like sometimes even as I said, a short — for a short stint that can kind of wipe the slate clean, that allows you to think openly about a new chapter you may be entering that’s maybe unfamiliar. But that unfamiliar piece allows yourself to think broadly and differently.

LAURA STASSI

So in your book, you talk about five dimensions of life, place, purpose, social connection, physical well-being, and financial well-being.

RYAN FREDERICK In my research for the book, they’re Gallup Healthways. They created a well-being index and it was predicated really on those five different dimensions. So initially theirs was career, but really purpose is a broader umbrella. And then social connection, physical well-being, financial well-being. And then they said kind of community, which is really, in my view, really place. And so that…

And I would also say, Laura, the thinking continues to evolve in this. And I think the key insight in this area is that sometimes when we think about place, we think about four walls. You look on Zillow and oh my gosh, there’s a beautiful kitchen and stainless steel and granite countertops. And that’s true and that can be desirable for some people, but place is a lot more than that.

It’s our block, it’s our neighborhood, it’s our metropolitan area, it’s our county, state, etc. So those are the physical dimensions. But it also is like this basis for these four other things we talked about. So let’s say, to lean into social connection for a second, let’s say you’re just looking for just friends to start off. And the friends you make is highly correlated to where you live. And if your people are there, you’re more likely to find them and be able to spend time with them. If your people aren’t there where you live, it’s gonna be, you’re facing some headwinds around making friends. So that decision–  I kind of poke fun at Zillow sometimes because people kind of go there and, oh my God, well, can you imagine? But it’s — that view of the world is light in terms of the physical dimensions, but it’s also light in terms of the way in which where you plant yourself impacts your broader well-being.

LAURA STASSI

So you brought up social connections, so I’m gonna jump where you jumped. One of your questions was, this one kind of took me a little bit, social connections, I see friends on a regular basis in person and regular basis was at least twice a week. Okay, sorry, that seemed like a lot. Is there science behind twice a week, seeing people in person?

RYAN FREDERICK

Well, there’s certainly science around the art of making good friends, Laura. And there’s a sociologist-anthropologist named Robin Dunbar. And he coined the term Dunbar’s number. Dunbar’s number basically says, on average, we have the cognitive capacity to maintain about 150 friends. Sounds like a big number, but that means people that we kind of loosely may remember their name.

It often is a decent corollary to people that we’ve sent New Year’s cards to over the years. But making friends is a function of that chemistry, I mentioned earlier, like are your people there? But it’s also a function of time, particularly when you’re moving from acquaintances to friends to good friends to close friends. So it doesn’t mean you’ve got to see each one of your friends on a twice-a-week basis. But there is something about, even if you’re an introvert, finding ways to have what I describe as like a 3D experience, something that you can’t get over texting, can’t get over Instagram, you don’t get over the phone, even Zoom, it’s not a 3D powerful experience. There’s body language you miss. There’s emotions that you can’t take up on.

So I think absolutely, you know, there is a correlation in terms of these frequency of times with people. The neurons that get fired up when you see someone a person is different. We were just wired to have these in-person connections. So that is part of the rationale around it. I think you’ve seen some interesting critiques with social media — just because you’re friends on Facebook doesn’t necessarily suggest that you’re really friends. And place matters, right? Place allows you to have those in -person encounters.

LAURA STASSI

Let’s say I take a yoga class once a week and I see people there but none of my friends are there. I don’t know anybody by name. Does that count?

RYAN FREDERICK

I think as it relates to that question, it probably doesn’t count, but as it relates to going out there and interacting with people, yeah, absolutely. Even there’s research that suggests just being recognized, being known. So when you make eye contact with someone, I wish I were better with names, but it’s of course better if you can remember the name, but nonetheless, if there’s a sense of recognition, you’re known.

LAURA STASSI

You know, I have sidewalks in front of my house, but there’s also trees and the big trees, you know, bump up the bricks. And so am I going to be more likely to trip? I mean, it just, it’s hard to think about all the what ifs and should have, what could have and that kind of thing, even though we should be, right? Or can we just let it go for now?

RYAN FREDERICK

Planning is important, but so is living. And so I think it’s important to really balance the two, Laura, like recognize that you, it’s an important investment for planning for place, just like it’s important to financially plan for a long life. But also enjoy today. You know, there’s no promise that tomorrow even comes around.

You know, one of the things that we hear a lot about particularly as we get older is this idea of aging in place. I hate the term. I think it also can be a flawed strategy for some people, but even if your plan is to age in place, it’s one thing to say it, vs. really plan for it. And so if you love your home today and you want to have it be available to you for as long as possible, that likely involves some physical changes over time, but also may involve some non-physical changes, like making an investment in friendships in different ways, making sure you’re active in ways that keep you healthy. So what I would say is, this place thing is, again, much bigger, I think more important than people realize it has more facets to it than I think most people realize.

END CREDITS

Speed Dating While Gray audio production and mix is by Steve Lack: Audio. For more on the show, including how to get in touch with me, go to datingwhilegray.com. I’m Laura Stassi. Thanks for listening.

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