In Your Ear Studios in Richmond, Va. (Thanks to listener Michael for the photo!)
Transcript
This is “Dating While Gray: The Grown-Up’s Guide to Love, Sex, and Relationships.” I’m Laura Stassi. And if you’re hoping all the Golden Bachelor talk is behind us, not yet. I want to share your point of view — about the Golden Bachelor, and about everything I’ve said about the Golden Bachelor. So on this episode, we are “Revisiting That Other Reality Dating Show.”
You know what’s a lot of fun? gathering a bunch of people together around a big TV screen with drinks and popcorn and candy … for this.
[SOUNDBITE OF FINALE WATCH PARTY]
DAISY ROSARIO 00:43
Hello, hello.
LAURA STASSI: Hello. Hello.
DAISY ROSARIO Hi, everybody. We’re about six minutes away from the live Golden Bachelor finale.
[SOUNDBITE ENDS]
LAURA STASSI 00:55
That’s Daisy Rosario you hear with me. Also with the crowd via Zoom is Cheyna Roth. I’ll tell you more about Cheyna and Daisy in just a bit.
[SOUNDBITE OF FINALE WATCH PARTY]
DAISY ROSARIO 01:05
So we are all going to watch live tonight together. And Laura and I will be talking to you a little bit during the commercial breaks.
LAURA STASSI
Do we want to take a pulse at the beginning, Theresa vs. Leslie?
DAISY ROSARIO
Oh, sure.
LAURA STASSI
Let’s get a pulse. Theresa versus Leslie, how many people think Theresa is gonna go home with a rose? (silence) Oh, no Theresas. Who thinks Leslie’s going home with the rose? (cheers)
DAISY ROSARIO Okay, we got we got a lot of Leslies.
LAURA STASSI
No, this is audio. Nobody can see your hands. (more cheers, laughter)
DAISY ROSARIO 1:45
I mean, I was rooting for Leslie. I think I just think that he will end up choosing Theresa. You know what I mean? Oh, it’s happening.
LAURA STASSI Here we go. Here we go. Here we go.
[SOUNDBITE ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
Our Golden Bachelor live finale watch party. So much fun. We put it together kind of at the last minute, still got about 25 people. It was the culmination of more than two months of me talking about the show. Not for Dating While Gray, but for this podcast.
[SOUNDBITE OF WAVES PODCAST]
CHEYNA ROTH 02:20
Welcome to The Waves. This is our Golden Bachelor podcast episode one. Every week, we’re talking about the latest episode of the newest installment of The Bachelor franchise and 72-year-old Gerry’s quest for love. I’m Cheyna Ross, senior producer here at Slate.
LAURA STASSI 02:37
And I’m Laura Stassi, host of the podcast Dating While Gray.
CHEYNA ROTH 02:42
Laura, I cannot wait to dig into this with you.
[SOUNDBITE ENDS]
LAURA STASSI 02:48
The Golden Bachelor recap podcast, produced by Slate — the same folks who own the Washington Post. Slate covers technology, politics, arts and entertainment. So of course they want to get in on the Golden Bachelor action. The TV show is shaping up to be the entertainment story of the year. That’s because for the first time in the franchise’s two-decade-plus history, the singles looking for love are all 60 and older. Now, the Bachelor plots rely heavily on participants in their 20s and early 30s frolicking, scheming, drinking, crying, and making out. Everyone is eager to see, what will a more mature version of the show look like?
ANNE 03:36 Hi, Laura. This is Anne in Washington, D.C. I have zero interest in the Golden Bachelor, or frankly, another so called reality show that is anything but real. I mean, pleeeease.
MAN 1: 03:50 If I watch it, it would probably be five- to 10-minute segments before I said, I’ve had enough. This is just drama, and I don’t need that kind of drama in my life.
LAURA STASSI 04:03
Okay, maybe not everyone, but a lot of people — including me. On the Dating While Gray episode “All That Glitters,” I talked with Lauren Harris about it. She’s a University of New Hampshire professor who studies older-adult dating. I asked Lauren if representation counts when the format is potentially degrading.
LAUREN HARRIS 04:23
I think it’s a tough one. Is this the end all be all? No, but maybe something like this will lead to the idea that single older adults, older adults as a market or a demographic are interesting.
LAURA STASSI 04:35
That was the only time I talked about the Golden Bachelor on Dating While Gray — until now. But of course, that was all I talked about on the Slate podcast with co-host Cheyna Roth. Cheyna’s a producer at Slate. She’s also an investigative journalist who previously was a lawyer. And she’s written two true crime books. I mean, wow, I’d talk with Cheyna about anything.
I got the Slate co-hosting gig because their senior supervising producer of audio is Daisy Rosario. Daisy knows that when it comes to older-adult dating. I’m kind of the subject matter expert. Back in 2018, Daisy worked at the NPR member station in Washington D.C. Her brainchild there was The Pod Shop. That’s where Dating While Gray was born and launched into the audio world.
So the Golden Bachelor TV show premiered on the last Thursday in September. The next morning, Slate drops the first recap podcast. Here’s some of what Cheyna and I covered in that episode.
[SOUNDBITE OF WAVES PODCAST]
CHEYNA ROTH 05:41
Before we get too far into Episode One and Gerry and his journey, I want to know about your history with the Bachelor franchise-slash-extended universe.
LAURA STASSI 05:53
Hmm, I have no history. I have never watched it before the Golden Bachelor because it seemed to me just kind of silly, like who wants to watch a bunch of younger people running around? So I was intrigued when I heard that ABC was going to do a Golden Bachelor. But I was concerned that they were going to — when the promo came out, I thought oh, I think they’re gonna be making fun of older people. I mean, do you remember that promo? It was like …
CHEYNA ROTH 06:19
It was terrible. He gets his DM carrier pigeon or something like that … it was really kind of condescending. Just — I get what they were going for, to try and make it like, oh, hey, you’re used to 20 somethings getting drunk and trying to find love. But we have some 60- and 70-year-olds trying to find love?
LAURA STASSI 06:57
Well, I thought for sure, okay. They do not want to appeal to older people. I thought it was going to be a hate watch for the younger bachelor nation, just because of those promos. So I thought okay, this really isn’t for me. I will watch it, but I don’t think they care whether I’m watching it or not. But I have to say, can I say? I’ve changed my tune since watching the first episode.
CHEYNA ROTH Oh!
LAURA STASSI I think this is a great opportunity. I think older people dating will be well represented. Look at Leslie paddleboarding in a bikini …
CHEYNA ROTH … or Faith with the motorcycle.
LAURA STASSI
Faith with the motorcycle. It did set it up — I think that Faith and Leslie and Theresa, those seem to be the top three at this point. And so I’m really curious what’s gonna happen next week.
[SOUNDBITE ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
You hear my enthusiasm, right? A lot of us feel positive about the show.
EVA MARIE 07:50
Hey, Laura. My name is Eva Marie. I’m 65 years old, and I live in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. I’ve never watched one before. It was great to see some representation of our demographic on the television.
WOMAN 1 08:05
I was familiar with the Bachelor format, but it never watched the series regularly. My older brother was the one who promoted the show to me and my siblings. He was a widower who had met his second wife online, and he acknowledged from the start that he identified with Gerry and his story. We all agreed to join a pool to try and pick the winner after the first two episodes. We each sent in our top three choices. Three of us actually picked Ellen.
LAURA STASSI 08:32
But as the weeks go by and Golden Bachelor Gerry eliminates women in batches, some of us become skeptical.
EVA MARIE 08:41
It shocked me a little bit that those beautiful, accomplished women were — they all just came across as so needy. It just made me really, really sad that they were trying so hard to get this guy’s attention.
WOMAN 2 08:56
Before it aired, I was encouraged by the prospect of a Golden Bachelor. And I hoped older adult dating relationships and their pursuit would be highlighted realistically. What I think — rather what I know we got was a pile of crap from a producer who hates her grandparents. I’ve never seen so much cringe crammed into 60 minutes in my life.
LAURA STASSI 09:23
Seriously, are the producers clueless? Forcing older women to sleep in bunk beds. Did they think it’s funny having Gerry and date Theresa go for a nighttime drive in a convertible with wonky headlights? Where’s Marina, who vanished the episode after she got a rose? What’s up with four women forming an alliance like they’re on Survivor? Is the Kathy-Theresa feud real, and is it making both of them look petty and manipulative.
WOMAN 2 09:57
There were those who seemed in it for the lark And then there was the Lesley’s, who seemed more fragile, and their heartbreak real.
WOMAN 3 10:07
I think it’s, you know, tragedy that there’s this these popular shows that promote the grooming of women so that they’re chosen by a man and that that is part of the value of who they are. It would be wonderful if there was a TV show that was made about how women come into their own, as opposed to how women are continually groomed to be chosen by a man and be their partner and less than and a prize if they live up to it.
LAURA STASSI
Is Gerry having any meaningful conversations during his one-on-one dates? Come on, at our age, there’s so much ground that needs to be covered. And speaking of Gerry: So many tears, so many times. Is it grief he’s feeling, guilt, some kind of game?
WOMAN 2 11:04
I have no problem with men expressing their emotions and in fact, believe the world would be a better place if they were more emotionally honest. But while his angst over wounding the women’s feelings seem genuine, his hypersensitivity struck me as well performative.
LAURA STASSI 11:23
With the third Golden Bachelor recap episode, Slate offers it for re-running in the Dating While Gray podcast feed. So now the production routine is this: new episodes of the Dating While Gray podcast drop on Thursdays. The Golden Bachelor TV show airs on Thursday nights. Cheyna and I talk about it for Slate’s recap podcast, which they run on Fridays. On Saturdays, that recap episode is repeated in the Dating While Gray podcast feed. Meanwhile, I’m writing about Golden Bachelor in the Dating While Gray e-newsletter and asking if you’re watching, what you think. And I start hearing from even more of you. Comments like, “The Golden Bachelor is amazing. I’m enjoying the show.” And, “To me, the show is a fun break from reality. It’s entertainment. That’s Hollywood.”
MAN 2 12:15
I’m a 73-year-old active widower and I have to admit, I would not have even given Golden Bachelor a thought if it had not been for listening to Dating While Gray. I was disappointed the only Texan in the group turned out to be a snitchy (bleep) but she is from Austin. And those folks are proud to be weird.
LAURA STASSI 12:42
And then one day, I randomly go online to check out Dating While Gray podcast reviews. And I come across these.
[THREE VOICE ACTORS READING REVIEWS]
Laura. I didn’t realize how judgmental you are until recently. … via Apple podcasts.
LAURA STASSI 13:54
Those are voice actors. Apple podcast reviews are anonymous. I have no way of reaching out to whoever wrote them or to respond to them. Like, I guessed, Giddy Up Frank is a man and the other two are women, but maybe not. Here’s an excerpt of an email I received, read by the person who wrote it.
WOMAN 4
I was surprised by your coverage of the Golden Bachelor. It felt like a departure from your usual tone of empathy and kindness. I found that recap of the Golden Bachelor to sometimes be unpleasant, mean- spirited, even harsh. I couldn’t listen to an entire episode without feeling bad for the people on the show. Especially some of your comments about Gerry. I hope that if there is another Golden Bachelor, your collaboration with Slate will be more compassionate and understanding of the challenges that come with dating later in life regardless of the format it takes.
LAURA STASSI
I respect the emailer for using her real name with me and for reading her comments. I have to say though, I do understand the challenges of dating later in life. I live and breathe them every day, personally and professionally. And therein lies the problem. I’m upset because clearly the producers are ignoring the reality of being an older single. But I’m ignoring the reality of quote, reality TV. Editing scenes and conversations to leave out what I think are important details. Setting up silly plot points. Hello costumed photoshoot. Even glossing over contestants’ personal histories. We’ll talk more about it. Plus, more from listeners and from the watch party. That’s all after the break.
BREAK
MAN 2 15:56
Personally, my pick from the get-go was the lady who left early to be with her daughter. I cannot believe Gerry was dumb enough to ship Ellen off – the pickleball queen!
EVA MARIE 16:10
Even the Golden Bachelor was thinking with this eggplant. I mean, think about it. The final three women all had long brown hair. My guess was that they echo at least physically the women that Gerry would have been attracted to the last time he was single.
MAN 2 16:30
Dating someone 10 or 12 years younger, and marrying someone that much of an age bracket difference, can be challenging when it comes to common interests and just plain old conversation. Though the sex and the adventures can be wonderful.
WOMAN 1 16:50
I know it’s wonderful to experience romantic chemistry and that twinkle in the eye again. But other things, like shared values and communication skills and knowing who you are, matter more to me now. I think that’s why Faith appealed to many of us. She seemed very authentic. She was also clear about the important things in her life. I think she had some doubts about whether she and Gerry could make a long-distance relationship work.
LAURA STASSI 17:19
Faith — motorcycle riding, horse-loving 60-year-old, and third runner up. Golden Bachelor Gerry meets Faith’s family, tells everybody he loves her, and then eliminates her from the competition.
So now we’re down to the final two: 64-year-old, twice-divorced Leslie, and 70-year-old widow Theresa. And all of us at the watch party have the previous episode fresh in our minds. That’s when the two women and Gerry traveled to Costa Rica for one-on-one dates and then overnighters in the so-called Fantasy Suites. In tonight’s conclusion, we’re expecting a final rose ceremony with Gerry announcing the winner of his heart.
But first, the show starts with more footage from Costa Rica. It’s the morning after the Fantasy Suites. Each of the women meets Gerry’s daughters and granddaughters, and then Gerry and his family talk about them privately to help him reach a decision.
[SOUNDBITE OF FINALE WATCH PARTY]
CHEYNA ROTH 18:17 I do want to point out how Gerry at the end said that Theresa was a nice picture, but he said he loves being with Leslie.
DAISY ROSARIO 18:27
Yeah, that’s the thing. His actual words about Leslie do sound more passionate.
LAURA STASSI, CHEYNA ROTH
Yeah, yes. Yes.
AUDIENCE MEMBER And playful.
DAISY ROSARIO
And playful.
LAURA STASSI Yes.
CHEYNA ROTH
And playful. And according to his daughters, that’s how he acts — which is not something I was picking up on earlier but okay. They know him better than I do.
LAURA STASSI 18:45
So Cheyna, I don’t know about you, but I’m having a very hard time separating what I’m watching with what we read what we’ve read about Gerry recently.
CHEYNA ROTH
Oh, I know. I know.
LAURA STASSI
Yeah.
DAIRY ROSARIO 18:57
So what we’re referring to, obviously, is The Hollywood Reporter article, which if you did not see it is basically kind of like a takedown of Gerry.
LAURA STASSI
Yes. (audience responds)
[SOUNDBITE ENDS]
LAURA STASSI 19:13
The Hollywood Reporter article — did you read it? It was published the day before the finale. And don’t let the publication’s name fool you into thinking it’s PR fluff. Two respected journalists wrote the piece after fact-checking and confirming the information provided by their main source, one of Gerry’s ex- girlfriends. Turns out Gerry started dating about a month after his wife died, which — that’s okay. And nothing criminal or overly skeevy about Gerry is revealed. But details about his work resume and romantic history? Well, they contradict the image that ABC crafted for him. I wonder if the women on the show are aware. And also I wonder, why? Real is entertaining too.
I’m remembering the Fantasy Suites episode. Wouldn’t it have been great to have heard Leslie and Gerry engaging in a real conversation about sexual intimacy: how each of them defines it, the importance they place on it, what they like, whether they want to be exclusive. Instead, Leslie asks Gerry, when’s the last time he had sex? And Gerry, after laughing like it’s an outrageous question, says it’s been a long time.
Okay, back to the finale. After the family meetings, each of the women gets one last time with Gerry. And now Gerry seems less enthusiastic about Leslie. They’re talking in her hotel room. She says she loves him. And then they cut to a commercial break.
[SOUNDBITE OF FINALE WATCH PARTY]
LAURA STASSI Okay, we’re back. Let’s see if he says it finally.
DAISY ROSARIO Whoa! (audience shouts) He said, be happy.
LAURA STASSI 20:58
He’s rejecting her. If he doesn’t…
CHEYNA ROTH Yeah.
LAURA STASSI Yeah, be happy.
DAISY ROSARIO 21:02
If this is not rejecting her, it’s meaner. Okay, for the people just returning to the room: Gerry looked at her and said, be happy.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 21:11 Be happy?
DAISY ROSARIO Be happy (laughter)
LAURA STASSI
Don’t worry be happy.
DAISY ROSARIO 21:13
It was as uncomfortable as it sounds. (audience responds) Yeah, it feels like he’s saying goodbye to her.
CHEYNA ROTH 21:22
I’m very uncomfortable.
LAURA STASSI 21:24
I think she said, do you have something you want to tell me? Like, here’s your time to tell me that you love me. And he didn’t say it. We should have said take a chug of wine for every time he cries but we don’t have enough wine.
DAISY ROSARIO
That’s true. That’s a good point.
LAURA STASSI
Oh, he’s sobbing. (audience responds)
[SOUNDBITE ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
Gerry has left Leslie’s room. She’s crying. He’s crying. He decides to go back to talk to Leslie. And all of us at the watch party are wondering why.
[SOUNDBITE OF FINALE WATCH PARTY]
DAISY ROSARIO 21:57
The thing is, even with Gerry returning to talk to her, I feel like they’re gonna fill time. But you know, as we’ve seen from Gerry earlier, like Gerry was most reactive, most crying when he knew he was going to disappoint somebody.
CHEYNA ROTH
That’s true. That’s true. He hates doing that.
DAISY ROSARIO
And so even showing him going back, I think ultimately, like the fact that he’s so emotional about this just reminds me of when he did not give us a rose to Faith.
CHEYNA ROTH 22:25
That’s a really good point. That’s I mean, like, that’s his move is to cry so much that the person he’s disappointing, then just feels bad for him. So then he doesn’t feel like a bad guy. (audience responds) That is the move. My daughter does the same thing. She’s three and a half years old.
AUDIENCE MEMBER
She’s playing you already, huh?
CHEYNA ROTH
She’s playing me already. (laughter)
[SOUNDBITE ENDS]
LAURA STASSI Gerry tells Leslie, he’s fallen in love with Theresa. And she’s the one getting the final rose.
[SOUNDBITE OF FINALE WATCH PARTY]
DAISY ROSARIO
Whoa!
LAURA STASSI
What?
[SOUNDBITE ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
Startling news not only because of the choice, but because Gerry is telling Leslie ahead of time. There will be no final rose ceremony. Leslie is very upset. She tells Gerry he lied to her, demands to know why. She’s not picking up what he’s putting down. There’s a tense conversation, more crying …
[SOUNDBITE OF FINALE WATCH PARTY]
AUDIENCE: Yeah! Yeah! Go Leslie!
LAURA STASSI
Be strong Leslie. Don’t let him comfort you.
AUDIENCE: No! No!
DAISY ROSARIO 23:28
Will the live room turn on Gerry?
CHEYNA ROTH 23:31
Don’t let him hug you. No, no no no. Get him off you.
LAURA STASSI
Yes.
AUDIENCE MEMBER
Don’t touch me! (laughter)
LAURA STASSI 23:39
Is he going to change his mind again?
DAISY ROSARIO 23:41
Oh my God, maybe.
CHEYNA ROTH
He cannot change his mind. There’s – maybe, though. I don’t know.
[SOUNDBITE ENDS]
LAURA STASSI Gerry does not change his mind.
[SOUNDBITE OF FINALE WATCH PARTY]
…”I’ll see myself out.”
(Audience laughter)
DAISY ROSARIO
All right!
CHEYNA ROTH Typical.
DAISY ROSARIO Incredible.
LAURA STASSI 24:12 (laughing) This is such a fun watch.
DAISY ROSARIO
(laughing) My goodness.
LAURA STASSI 24:17 Wow.
CHEYNA ROTH Well, that was a lot.
DAISY ROSARIO 24:20 I pulled up the Golden Bachelor hashtag on Twitter because it’s a live one so of course there’s — people are tweeting about it. This tweet, I think, speaks to what a lot of us remember. “Let us recap this stupid season. One. Gerry said I love you to Faith, Leslie, but not Theresa. Two, Gerry said you’re my girl to Leslie, not Theresa. Three, Gerry thought of Leslie on the date with Theresa. I don’t understand.”
(Laughter)
CHEYNA ROTH It’s true.
LAURA STASSI Very true, very true.
[SOUNDBITE ENDS]
MAN 2 At least with Theresa, he found someone in his age bracket
WOMAN 2 25:01
Do I think it’s possible to fall in love so quickly? I do, though I rather doubt this particular format supports anything meaningful and lasting.
WOMAN 1 25:11
I do think The Golden Bachelor raised a lot of interesting questions for older singles to consider. What do you want at this stage of your life? What will make you happier? Is it a good friend? Is it a companion? Is it a romantic partner, even one who lives in another city? Or is it a spouse? These people took a giant step towards seeking something new.
LAURA STASSI 25:35
Okay, no more Golden Bachelor talk from me. Although I’m super curious about how much money Gerry is making from this. And also if Theresa is getting paid, and how much of her newfound earnings are tied to being Gerry’s wife. No one is talking, not without ABCs permission. All of the cast members have non-disclosure agreements.
Rumor has it, ABC is gearing up for a Golden Bachelorette show. Who’s going to be able to resist watching that? Anyone tempted to apply? Not me, thank you. I’m comfortable in the peanut gallery.
[SOUNDBITE OF FINALE WATCH PARTY]
(Applause)
LAURA STASSI Yay.
DAISY ROSARIO All right.
CHEYNA ROTH All right. It’s over.
(applause, laughter)
LAURA STASSI 26:29 Look at you spunky people. Thank you for sticking with it.
CHEYNA ROTH Thank you everyone for coming.
LAURA STASSI On your way out, please take some chocolates.
DAISY ROSARIO 26:34 Give out the chocolates. Tell them what show it’s from. Thank you all so much for coming and for being such an incredible audience.
END CREDITS
Dating While Gray’s audio production and mix is by Steve Lack: Audio. Theme music by D. Peterschmidt. Please like and follow Dating While Gray wherever you get podcasts. That way, you’ll never miss an episode. And, if you’re so inclined, leave a review letting everyone know what you love about us. For more on the show, check out datingwhilegray.com. That’s where you can find the Dating While Gray archive of episodes. You can also find links to send me questions, comments, tips, and true stories – through email and voice mail. You know I love hearing from you. While you’re there, sign up for the free Dating While Gray e-newsletter, delivered every Friday to your inbox. That’s datingwhilegray.com.
I’m Laura Stassi. Thanks so much for listening.
Episode transcripts are posted on the Dating While Gray website before they are thoroughly proofread. The audio of this episode is the authoritative record. For terms of use and permissions, please email laura@datingwhilegray.com.